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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2005 : 5:46:40 PM
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Posted - 02/10/2005 : 11:36:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------A little birdie told me this is where I ought to be.
I talked to Bob Bobbings about the possibility of releasing his recordings of Woodchuck on a CD. I am happy to say that Bob that is open to the idea if there is enough people interested. Woodchuck was a trio consisting of Billy Burke on the Hammond B3 organ, Jaco Pastorius on bass guitar and Bob Herzog (later known as Bob Zohn) on drums and lead vocals. I never actually heard the band play live. If you want to read the testimonials of some people who did, go to the Limestone Lounge website. On a thread on the site devoted to Soul Music, Woodchuck is one of the topics. Some guys who remember hearing the band talk about the group. I did play guitar with Burke and Herzog in an earlier band. I jammed with Jaco a lot. After Woodchuck I played in Jaco's band the Uptown Funk Allstars. UFA was never recorded. Bob played drums and sang in that group too.
Billy Burke was known among the local musicians as the Jimmy Smith of South Florida. His playing was POWERFUL! Bob Herzog was an amazingly soulful singer. Jaco, I hope you already know. With Woodchuck, he was already pushing the limits of what had ever been done on the bass guitar. I have only heard the snippets of the group that Bob included on Jaco's early years CD, but those snippets whetted my appetite for more. If you get a chance to hear Woodchuck you will not believe that this sound is coming from three teenaged white kids. I'm in touch with some guys who heard the group, and, if anybody is interested, I'll see if I can persuade them to log on here and share their stories. Ciao. Ken Gemmer
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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 6:01:04 PM
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I have already e-mailed some of the guys from back in the day and they are very enthusiastic about a Woodchuck CD. Jim McAllister, who played in a group with Herzog and Burke, was recently inducted to the Kansas City Music Hall of Fame. He said " I really love that Woodchuck sound as per Mr. Pitiful on Bob B.'s Portait of Jaco cd set. Bob's voice and that incredible distorted growl coming out of Billy's B-3....."
I also e-mailed Pete McNally. Pete was a close friend of both Bob Herzog and Jaco. Regarding the Woodchuck CD Pete McNally said, "Put it out!"
He followed that with another e-mail stating: "With the passing of Jimmy Smith on Tuesday I remember Billy [Burke] always carried around Jimmy Smith's 1966 album,"Peter and the Wolf!" This was the first I heard that Jimmy Smith the Numero Uno Maestro of the Hammond B-3 had died. What a sad coincidence.
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Edited by - Ken Gemmer on 02/10/2005 6:05:15 PM |
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wdent
Senior Member
USA
3979 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 08:40:48 AM
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Ken: I am excited to hear more Woodchuck. Even though those guys played a lot of covers, the instrumentation and of course, the uniqueness of each player, puts the tunes they played in a different light. Of course, to hear Jaco at this stage of his bass playing career is invaluable. Do you or Bob remember exactly what years Jaco was in the band? Also, did they do any originals and were those originals recorded by you (Bob?)
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Edited by - wdent on 02/11/2005 08:42:13 AM |
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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 11:22:19 AM
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Wdent
Thank you for your interest in Woodchuck. You have raised an interesting point. I don’t think that the whole concept of a “cover” being something of less value than an “original” had occurred to these guys. The pejorative use of the term “cover” seems to be etymologically related to the term “cover band.” Back in the 60s we referred to these groups as “Top 40 bands.”
Although the musicians in Woodchuck were perhaps not completely free of the Top 40 burden, they were doing their own interpretation of the tunes they played. As I’m sure you are aware, a lot of jazz is devoted to interpreting popular songs. Ray Charles stopped composing some time during his career. But he never “covered” anything. He interpreted songs and often, his interpretation became the definitive version. That was what the guys in Woodchuck were doing. What little I have heard of Woodchuck doesn’t sound like covers to me. They sounded like interesting, soulful interpretations. And that’s one reason why I would like to here more.
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Edited by - Ken Gemmer on 02/11/2005 11:26:28 AM |
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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 11:24:38 AM
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Wdent
Oh yes, I think The Year of Woodchuck was 1969. |
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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 12:30:15 PM
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I received this from Pete McNally:
"Ken, As you can tell I'm not much interested in signing for web sites,blogs or whatever and I don't want a bunch of people e-mailing me like last time,so I'll give you my take on "Woodchuck".
It was either before or after Billy Burke's famous Birthday Party, that Woodchuck saw the light of day.
Billy was a child prodigy in my eye's who could read and play classical music since he was very young and in the mid 60's as a kid, started out playing Farfisa and then convinced his parents that he should get a Hammond B-3,which he took too and mastered like Jaco did with the Bass.
In 1966 you had Billy Preston on the west coast and Detroit, Jimmy Smith-Phila-who started bring the Hammond sound to the forfront.
Since many of the people who became later part of the Florida-Kansas City music tree, where all these great players stole each others licks, grooves, chops and style,it's why they all were great,all the musicans and bands tried to cut each other, for better or worse. It's how you heard who was hot!.
In the mid to late 60's you had Mike Finnigan and the Serfs from Kansas,like Bob Herzog a bad ass soulful white guy,who could sing his ass off and had the B-3 chops,like nobody else. There were many players in Kansas City around this period: Larry Young, Ed Toler, Jim McCallister, Ken Gemmer, Larry Faucet, Pat Metheny, Steve "Duck" McLane, Drew Meyers, Rich Hill to name a few.
In Florida in 1970, soul music was like eating breakfast it was in your blood,and it became the nucleaus of Woodchuck, because it was three white kids that were blacker then black, ask anybody, they may have done covers, but Zog's(HOTDOG)laid back groove and Billy's chops gave Jaco the perfect spot to take his influences of Jerry Jermond, George Porter, Duck Dunn, James Jamerson, and start to shape his own grooves,they killed everyone who ever saw them."
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Edited by - Ken Gemmer on 02/11/2005 12:37:21 PM |
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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 12:48:46 PM
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Here is what another guy who heard Woodchuck live had to say:
Yes, I saw Woodchuck many times as a 14 year old with my older brother, Kenny, who played next to them in the clubs often with Katmandu{around 1970}. Yea, Billy was really the showcase of the group although Jaco gave him a good run for his money. All I know is that one day people from everywhere were saying they saw the best soul trio on the earth ever and Woodchuck was the band. I remember them doing "Barefootin", killer . These guys were light-years ahead of everyone.Billy, I think, repaired pianos{maybe his father did} and organs,so it makes sense that his B3 would be working so well. One day I walked into the Elbow room on the strip in Fort Laud beach and Woodchuck was playing there during the day.When they saw me{Kenny's little brother} Bob,the drummer , offered to allow me to sit in. I immediately refused because these guys were so incredible and I knew they were light years beyond me.Also, I don't think Bob was a drummer, at least a trained one. He was a singer in the band and they really didn't need guitar or much of drums either with Jaco and Burke. {by the way, all three members of the band since have passed away, very sad and missed in the music scene }. I think some of the Woodchuck stuff is coming out on the new Jaco CD which traces his development as a player from Woodchuck until the end of his career. When my brother's band {Katmandu} heard Woodchuck for the first time at the She club on the beach, they were all stunned by how incredible they were {and they were pretty good players themselves}. I can remember one night after a gig at the Flying Machine that my brother took me over to Billy Burke's house to listen to a recording they had made of both bands that night{Woodchuck and Katmandu}. The bass and organ on the Woodchuck part was so incredibly funky and right, these guys would go off into all kinds of different keys and stuff just grooving to the music. It's like they were seasoned Jazz cats but they were 17-18 years olds.
adam zaslavsky
(from the Limestone Lounge) |
Edited by - Ken Gemmer on 02/11/2005 6:17:58 PM |
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rsears
Senior Member
1786 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 4:33:54 PM
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| Sounds like Woodchuck was the Funk and Groovin' to me. I've never heard the group and What do we have to do to get the music? It had to have been just outstanding to wittness a killer B3 guy and Jaco hook up on the Groove. I can just picture the intensity of that! My mere words can't do justice to the Legacy of Jacos' music and his career. When I read the stuff here it's like being on the inside now. The site is getting even better. I take it Jaco was using an Acoustic ???- or had they even made Acoustics in 69? Did he have the frets removed in 69? Anybody? |
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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 6:12:40 PM
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resears
That's a damn good question. According to Craig Reid, a bass player who was on scene back then, he bought the Acoustic 360 amp at Modern Music Store in Fort Lauderdale in 1971. He says he later sold it on consignment to Jaco via the same store. That was after Woodchuck (A.W.) If anyone knows what Jaco was playing through when he was with Woodchuck its Mr. Bob Bobbings, Jaco's disciple who followed him around recording everything he played. Basically, what we need to do to get The Woodchuck CD is chat it up and persuade people who are interested to log on to this thread and say so. If there is enough interest in a Woodchuck CD, Mr. Bobbings will PUT IT OUT! |
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Bob Bobbing
Administrator
821 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 01:42:50 AM
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Gemmer,
What's this Mr. Bobbing’s stuff? I think you are a year older than I am!
For the record, Ken Gemmer is a bad ass guitar player who was definitely in the same league as Billy Burke and Jaco. He also has links to everybody from back in the day including Tyrone Weston and Bill Reddish, the monster tenor saxophone players that blew Jaco away and became members of Jaco's first string lineup, when he could find them. And Ken used to hang at the Downbeat Club with Bob Herzog even before Jaco became hip to the place. Ken also played guitar in Bartok's Mountain along with Bob Herzog, Billy Burke, and Tom Staley on drums who later joined NRBQ.
Anyway, it's good to hear all the enthusiasm about Woodchuck, especially from Zog's buddy Pete McNally. To get a visual on Pete, imagine Yosemite Sam without the hat & six shooters. Pete is good people and was very close to Bob. I think they both became totally caught up in the reggae scene after seeing Bob Marley in concert in Jamaica. Maybe Pete will change his mind and join in some of these discussions sometime. As for the drummer Steve "Duck" McLane that Pete mentioned, he is the drummer seen playing with Jaco and Herzog on the back cover of the Digipak that's included within the "Portrait of Jaco."
And for Adam, Kenny Zale's younger brother. Those were great memories of both Woodchuck and Katmandu. Katmandu was one of the first all original bands in Miami at that time, and featured; Bobby Caldwell, bass & vocals - Bob Jabo, guitar & vocals - Kenny Zale, drums - and Norman Harris, Hammond B-3 & vocals. A great memory of mine is the night I was tricked into riding on the Miss America float in the Orange Bowl parade with Katmandu. You see they were hired to perform on the float and play "American Woman," over and over and over, right up until the end. But right before the parade was to begin, because of the unsteady stage setup and the stop and go nature of the parade, Norman asked me to please kneel down behind the amps and hold them steady so they wouldn't fall. Can you imagine how loud and uncomfortable it must have been kneeling behind Norman’s 122 Leslie and a blaring open backed Twin reverb and forced to endure 23 back to back repeats of American Woman?
Shortly after the parade, Katmandu were discovered in Miami by Little Richard and they left for the coast to make it big. But that's another story. Anyway Adam, Kenny and I were very close and I was very sad to hear of his passing. So many have gone who were a vital part of that special scene in South Florida back then. As a result of this forum, and as a tribute to Kenny Zale, I am going to post at JacoTheEarlyYears.com a really great photo that I have of "Katmandu" when playing with Woodchuck at the Flying Machine.
Oh, I almost forgot about Woodchuck and Jaco. Jaco was playing a 1966 fender jazz in Woodchuck, and his amp was a dual 15’ JBL Sunn. His bass was still fretted at this point and he was using Labella flat wound strings.
BB
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EddieG
Senior Member
United Kingdom
690 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 06:46:40 AM
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Can I formally state that I would LOVE to hear some of those recordings.
*moved the rest of this post to the appropriate board* |
Edited by - EddieG on 02/13/2005 07:59:10 AM |
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Oslo
Senior Member
Norway
1025 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 08:05:03 AM
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A whole cd focusing merely on Jaco's Woodchuck-period
would be great. ANY possible new releases containing previously unreleased Jaco-material would be treasured by any Jaco-fan. I think I can say on behalf of everyone in here that such releases will be met with great interest and gratitude.
Music is the only universal language! |
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rsears
Senior Member
1786 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 12:45:22 PM
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| Thanks BOB--- 66 Jazz and Sunn Amp- got it! |
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wdent
Senior Member
USA
3979 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 08:33:35 AM
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I think I can say on behalf of everyone in here that such releases will be met with great interest and gratitude
A.....MEN!
Jaco: You know you've got that glass on Duke Ellington's book!
Interviewer: Which book is that?
Jaco: The only one! |
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Ken Gemmer
Junior Member
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 10:00:40 AM
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Bob—
I meant nothing but respect when referring to you as “Mr.” You earned my respect with the great job you did on POJ. I’m going to go back and read your mission statement on the Holiday Park Records site. I want to see if a Blue Riddim Band CD would fit into your vision. For those that don’t know, Blue Riddim Band was Bob (Herzog) Zohn’s reggae band of the late 70s-early 80s. They were nominated for a Grammy. But, the tapes have never come out on a CD. I think a Blue Riddim Band CD would generate interest in Woodchuck and vice versa. If anybody can do it and do it right Bob Bobbings can. Bob Bobbings is one of the few people I know that knows what a Bob Herzog/Zohn CD would mean to Jaco. What say ye Bob?
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copen
Starting Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 11:35:08 AM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Bobbing[/i]
[br]
For the record, Ken Gemmer is a bad ass guitar player who was definitely in the same league as Billy Burke and Jaco.
Right. K. Gremmer was as good on guitar, as Jaco was on bass.
and billy burke was as good on kbd as jaco was on bass.
Not even on the same planet, let alone same league.
gimme a break.
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